Column by Sherry Dee Allen: Giant tiny amendments
by Sherry Dee Allen
Oct 23, 2012 | 8470 views | 49 49 comments | 33 33 recommendations | email to a friend | print
Sherry Dee Allen
Sherry Dee Allen
slideshow
I have a confession to make. I’m not a real political person. I love being a news writer, but covering the county commission and the school board often means long, boring board meetings. I’ll be 46 years old Christmas Day, but I have the attention span of a two-year-old when you sit me in a chair and tell me to be quiet. I struggle.

Sometimes, I’ll be sitting in one of those meetings and after the second hour of listening to sewer issues or contract renewals, my imagination starts to float around the room. I see someone speaking at the podium, but somewhere in the back of my mind all I can hear is Charlie Brown’s teacher’s voice…you know?

“Wah, wahwahhh, wahwahh wah.” It’s terrible.

If you’re the same way, just bear with me. I’m going to talk about some political junk, but I have a really good reason and I’ll try to make it quick and painless and a little entertaining.

A few weeks ago, during a local school board meeting, I got so sucked into the whole charter school amendment debate I was just plain mad by the time I left. Denia Reese, the superintendent, and chairman Don Dycus spent a good half-hour with me after the meeting, patiently answering every question I fired at them.

I googled and researched for days, trying to get a feel for both sides so I could be objective, but all the while, I kept getting that “déjà vu” sensation. I finally came to the conclusion that this whole situation is just “T-SPLOST” all over again. Same concept. Different avenue. Mega wealthy companies and politicians with personal agendas.

When you get to the polls, you're going to read an unassuming little “proposed amendment” on the ballot, containing an even more grossly unassuming little five letter word, so please... PAY ATTENTION. The ballot question reads like this:

“Shall the Constitution of Georgia be amended to allow state or local approval of public charter schools upon the request of local communities?”

Read it again. Seem vague, yet positive? Feel familiar? If you're slowly nodding in a puzzled daze, then I rest my case.

Somewhere down in Atlanta, there are some slippery little legislators hoping you'll casually glance at their generic little harmless “correction” and pull the “yes” lever. Please use caution. This is the Constitution of the state of Georgia you’re changing, friends, not your Facebook status.

Charter schools are often innovative, “off the public beaten path” types of educational institutions that just need a little “wiggle room” to accommodate their needs. If your students are blind or deaf, you clearly have different needs than a typical public school. If a business wants to open a technical school and train local students to more quickly and efficiently enter their workforce, they need to make adjustments. A “virtual” school can host 100 students per session, rather than the typical classroom limit of 30 or 35. These are all wonderful ideas and a complete asset to the community.

More importantly, our local school board has ample intelligence and insight to determine which charter applicants would well serve Catoosa County and which ones might not be such a great idea. They live here. They serve here. They want the community to grow and have “educational options.” They know when to make exceptions and when to restrain.

As it stands, if an applicant approaches the local school board about establishing a charter school and they are denied, they can appeal to the state board of education. The state has the authority to override the decision of the local board if no agreement can be made. So WHY do we need to amend by adding the word STATE? Why are they trying to fix something that isn’t broken? Makes no sense. Makes you wonder what they’re up to…

When I'm trying to get to the bottom of puzzles like this, I play a little game I like to call “Follow the money.”

In 2008, some lawmakers down in Atlanta exposed a small “commissioned” group of people who were approving the start-up of charter schools all over Georgia, who had been denied establishment by their local school board. When the matter worked its way up to the top legal rank, the U.S. Supreme Court sided with the whistle-blowers and deemed the group's existence and actions as “unconstitutional.” The issue was with the “commission,” not with the state board’s right to override a local board’s decision. There was no need for a separate entity such as a “charter commission.”

Stay with me. We’re still following the money....

There’s an international movement among giant for-profit businesses nowadays. They make a fortune by building charter schools in communities all over the place. Unfortunately, there’s always that sticky issue of convincing the local school board that their school is necessary and beneficial to that particular community.

If only there was a way to sidestep the local board...

Here’s a thought…dump a bunch of money into a political campaign. When the right foks are in office, they’ll push really hard for a vague little amendment to get passed that will legalize the formation of a pet group of state people called a “charter commission.”

Still following the money?

Did I mention the seven people on the “charter commission” are all nominated by elected officials? The Governor submits three names, the Lt. Governor and the House speaker would control two seats each. I’m not pointing fingers. I have no proof of anything. Just sharing an interesting little tidbit…

The way I see it, as soon as your yes vote passes, that word “STATE” will finally give that unconstitutional “commission” the legal right to scoot their chairs right back up to the state education table and pick up where they left off.

If you vote yes, you take the decision-making power out of the hands of your local school board members — the ones who actually KNOW what would be best for this community and our schools — and place it into the hands of seven complete strangers whose pockets are bulging with taxpayer dollars but have most likely never set foot in this county and don’t even know your name.

Speaking of money, there's only one big pot labeled “education money” in the general assembly fund and every public school is scraping the bottom of that pathetic barrel to maintain our schools. I’ve been sitting in local budget meetings for two years, and I can tell you, it’s an impossible and thankless task, but your local board members do their level best to pinch every penny they can to keep the coffers balanced. And they do it with a positive attitude. And they do it for you and your families.

The state can say all day long they aren't funneling money away from local schools when they build a charter school, and that's partially true. State charters don't depend on local property and sales taxes that support existing public schools. BUT.. rest assured, there will be a shiny new line item on next year's state budget entitled “STATE CHARTER SCHOOLS” with it's grubby little hand out. I still fed all my children after the fourth baby was born too, but we ate a lot more peanut butter than steak.

I can’t tell you how to vote. Neither can the Catoosa County school board. I’m not some political analyst with an unbiased overview. I can’t even stay awake during a 6 o’clock meeting sometimes, but please educate yourself before you vote. That's all we're asking. And if you start to waver at the polls, let me encourage you to stop and ponder the following questions….

Who picked her way through tornado rubble and wore a hard hat for a solid year to ensure YOUR child's educational facilities were not only restored, but updated and brought up to 21st century standards in a swift and efficient manner? Who knows your city and councilmen on a first name basis, and what they stand for, and how best to work in conjunction with them to improve public education? Whose faces do you see at Friday night football games, even though their children are no longer even in the school system?

Voting “yes” would be an emphatic insult to some of the finest people we have serving this community.

Voting “no” will send a unified “Thank you.”

Sherry Dee Allen is a staff writer for The Catoosa County News. She can be reached at sallen@catoosanews.com.

Comments
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snarky
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November 07, 2012
Way to go Georgia !

Despite a dishonest campaign by the education monopoly (and their enablers in the media),the voters saw through the crapola and approved a real reform for their public schools. Bully for them. The local school boards will now have to deal fairly with every charter school proposal and not just pretend to be an honest broker. This amendment won’t take any resources out of public schools, but it will empower parents to choose the school that works best for their child. Just like public school employees can do. If choice is good enough for them, it’s good enough for the rest of us.

I think that the bigger lesson here is that the vote shows that the education monopoly can be beaten. The status quo warriors in the education establishment got bushwhacked on this one because the amendment strategy can’t be undone by activist judges. (Side note- A shout out to our state rep Tom Weldon for voting yes on this in the legislature. He stood up for our kids and we need to show him our appreciation). So now we know how to beat the education monopoly-Bring it to the people. Change won’t happen at the local school board level. Local school boards are all comprised of former teachers or retired administrators. They like the system just as it is and they are not going to give up power-It has to be taken from them. They are never going to clean their own house, so we will have to clean it for them.(And we took a swiffer to the place yesterday) Their idea of “reform” is throwing more money at the current system and expecting better results. We know that won’t work.

Parents and kids won on Tuesday. Let’s all celebrate. Now don’t you crazy kids go out and do anything that I wouldn’t do…

Totally-lost
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November 03, 2012
This amendment will not effect me either way it goes. I have no children. I have questions about this anyway.

1. Is it true that results are better in charter schools?

2. Is it true that charter schools are able to do this cheaper than regular schools?

3.Is either question 1 or 2 the main reason that Educators would really be opposed to this amendment.

I really would like to understand this better. Please help!

Thank you.
snarky
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November 04, 2012
Some answers:

1) Results in a lot of charter schools are better,but not universally.There is no one size fits all improvement scheme that works everywhere,but the charter schools mold the curriculum to the students instead of trying to pound square pegs through round holes like the old fashioned school system we have now.

2)Generally,a qualified yes. But why? Because charter schools are not chained to the union goons that have held our schools hostage. They're too busy teaching and innovating to spend time wandering the halls of the capitol buying legislators.

3) (The BIGGIE) Educators are really opposed to this amendment because it would put power in the hands of parents and work for real reform within the existing system. Despite scare stories (Like the nonsensical "Amerikans" balderdash below),charters are public schools,accountable to local school boards and parents. Don't let the same people that have run the schools into the ground bamboozle you.

Practice "zero tolerance" for mediocore schools. Vote Yes.
No.more.hypocrites
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November 05, 2012
I'm going to try and be as unbiased as possible, but just so you know, I am voting NO.

1. There are some very good charter schools with great ideas that allow children to learn in different ways than the public schools that are inundated with mandates. However, the Stanford CREDO study - the most inclusive and unbiased study - shows that 17% of charters out performed their public counterparts, 37% of public schools out performed their charter counterparts, and the rest performed at approximately the same level.

2. Many charters do operate at a lower cost per student. However, the students at those charter schools do not get the same services as public schools. Public schools are also mandated to offer certain services to special needs children that charters do not. Transportation for example is a huge cost to public schools while most charters do not offer this service. Many charters are also starting to open in well developed, affluent areas, like Cherokee and Coweta. The kids from these communities are coming from excelling schools and are very cheap to educate. Charters can also stop enrolling students once it is not profitable for them. If you compare administrative costs, charters will have closer to 10% whereas public schools focus more spending on the students and only have about 4% administrative costs. You get what you pay for.

3. Educators work for both public and charter schools. Most educators oppose the amendment for several reasons. This amendment will drain funding for the majority of students, which attend public schools. This will cause class size to soar even higher than they are now. It doesn't matter how good of a teacher you are, with a packed classroom, you can't help those students they way they need to be helped. There will be more furlough days. Most districts already have implemented furlough days, some with as many as 20, and one with 44 furlough days. Teachers are still expected to meet certain criteria regardless of the number of days in a school year and the number of students they have. They are getting lower pay each year while cost of living is increasing. The cost of insurance alone doubled for teachers with families this year.

I urge you to continue researching before voting tomorrow. This is not about charter schools being good or bad. They do have a purpose and can already be approved by the local or state governments. This amendment is the first step to some ugly stuff. Follow the money. Vote NO.
JoeWill
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October 26, 2012
Snarky, you've nailed it. This same blog plays out on the AJC, via Maureen Downey and get schooled.

No.more.hypocrites
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October 26, 2012
Sherry, I believe the above statement is a compliment. Maureen Downey is always spot on.
JoeWill
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October 27, 2012
Yes, it is a compliment. However, Maureen is not always spot on. She has an open forum, but always leans left, like her cousin, Jay Bookman.
JoeWill
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October 26, 2012
Chris, Georgia is not the only state that has issues regarding political ethics (or lack thereof).

Many areas of the state struggle with dysfunctional district based education monopolies that are entrenched in their beliefs. Actually, I favor a system where the funding follows the student. Presently, we are "graduating" students that can't read or do basic math, all in the name of social promotion. The fact is, schools are not teaching skills that are needed by communities and students. Starting in 8th grade there should be a vocational track, teaching plumbing, electrical, auto mechanics skills, things that will motivate some students to come to school and a skill that will provide a job to the community other than cooking hamburgers. Frankly, the issues go far beyond the Charter amendment and the understanding of most people on this blog. Google Monica Perez JD, / wordpress for a little more info on the topic.

Last, a nugget of state information:

www.open.ga.gov , it will give you data on all state employees compensation (teachers and administration too) It's interesting to see that kindergarten teachers are making $92,000 per year.
No.more.hypocrites
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October 26, 2012
Joe - So because other states have a lack of ethics we should ignore it here?

Problem with money following the student is that not every student costs the same to educate. Think about special needs students compared to an Honors student. Or students that require individualized transportation, their own teacher, their own room, several therapists...etc - which district schools are legally held responsible for providing an adequate education. Most students may cost less than a few thousand dollars to education, while other require possibly more than $100,000 to educate. You won't see those students at charters because that digs into their profits and they will "counsel" them out. Similar to how they "counsel" out students that are failing, and are not a good fit in their charter school, so they go back to the district school affecting their numbers in a negative manner.

However, I do agree that getting rid of non-college prep tracks was a HUGE mistake. People should realize that the same policy makers/legislators that made that decision are the ones behind Amendment 1.

As far as researching compensation... should teachers not be able to make money? If the teacher is making $92K they are very experienced and have many educational degrees that they have invested much of their own time and money into. Should people with three or four degrees not get paid for this if they are capable? You should be more concerned about PE teachers making $92K/year. Think about what kind of people would be attracted into education if schools paid $100K/year for math and science teachers.
JoeWill
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October 26, 2012
hypocrites, actually we agree on the point of math and science teachers making 100k plus.

As to your comment: "Should people with three or four degrees not get paid for this if they are capable?" This is an absolute and unequivocal NO.

The exception being, a high level physics, math, science, particle/string theory application.

However, over the past decade, "advanced" degrees became an online industry, get a masters degree, add another 8k to your salary, add a PhD, add another 15k. Adding nefarious degrees to simply add to your paycheck has been busted. The state will be applying standards, so that advanced degrees will only apply to subject related material, as it should be. No more PhD's in leadership education to make 92k as a kindergarten teacher.

As far as your comment that PE teachers being deprived of not making 92k a year, if they can reduce the obesity level of children, I'm glad to sponsor that program.

No.more.hypocrites
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October 26, 2012
Problem is that teachers are not paid by ability, and if they are going to be able to provide for their family, the only way to get a raise is through gaining knowledge and degrees.
JoeWill
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October 26, 2012
No.more.hypocrites, Your comment: "Problem is that teachers are not paid by ability,"

That's absolutely correct. They are paid based on seniority.

No.more.hypocrites
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October 26, 2012
Thanks, Joe. So what else do you think teachers should do to get paid so they can actually afford to feed their families? A second job? Wait 30 years?
JoeWill
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October 27, 2012
Hypocroties:

The average starting salary for a teacher is approximately 34k per year for salary, plus benefits.

Average salary for a teacher in Georgia is about 55k, asst. principal 60-85k, principal 70-145k. So please stop whining about how a teacher is going to feed their family. That's utter nonsense.

No one forces a person to go into education as a career . Do your due diligence, and if monetary compensation is a concern, become a lawyer or doctor.

While you don't see it, you are one of the reasons that k-12 education in Georgia is 47-48th in the nation in national test scores. To use an 80's term, "think outside the box".

District schools that have a strong k-12 program have nothing to fear from Charter schools. It's the educrats that draw a salary on the public teet that are crying wolf on the Charter movement.

If you live in Georgia and attend public schools, there is only one way to move and that's up.

Vote yes, to allow students and families the opportunity for school choice.

Vote no, and agree that you're satisfied with being 47th out of 50.

George Will
No.more.hypocrites
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October 27, 2012
The 47th of 50 argument shows exactly how amendment supporters use inaccurate stats to try and show failure. As mentioned previously, that stat compares 80% of GA students to other states that only test 10-20% of their students. You can take 80% of GaTech students and compare them to Chatt Techs top 10% and It will make GT look bad.

You are right that no one forces teachers into education. However, when schools are underfunded and teachers get paid less year after year with pay cuts and furloughs, you will be forcing them out. And you sure wont be attracting the best and brightest into education. But this is the agenda right? So our educational system will fail and corporations can sweep up the mess ($billions).

ChrisPBacon
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October 26, 2012
Sherry, you bring up an excellent point in your article regarding that all money used to fund schools comes from the same pot. If school districts are getting "austerity" cuts (AKA less funding) and Charter schools are getting increased funding... where is the money coming from? Regardless of what the law says about charters not taking money from school districts that is exactly what is happening here in the "Loophole" state. And for JoeWill... since he likes rankings... Georgia is 50 out of 50 in ethics. Your slimy legislators found a way to launder money through the state.
sherrydee
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October 26, 2012
Thank you! Nobody (in authority) will say where the money is coming from. It's all very vague and "explained away." Google EB5 if you aren't familiar with it. It's a green card/visa which gives foreign businesses mega buying power over here on our soil. The plot just thickens when you ask about the money...thanks for the comment. And you're doing a great job with the percentage rebuttal, so I'll just let you handle it...:)
No.more.hypocrites
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October 29, 2012
snarky: "The only thing we have to lose is some bad educational practices."

Wow.

So, what now that the TEA Party opposes this Amendment?
snarky
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October 28, 2012
"Teachers know that this Amendment isn't the answer. It isn't the silver bullet to educational bliss."

Nobody says or has said that it will. Reasonable people know that there is no "silver bullet" to any problem this large.There is only hard work,cooperation and lots of compromise.

But compromise doesn't mean that reformers give in to the education monopoly. That's not compromise.That's surrender. This amendment would do one thing only- It would keep local school boards from denying a legit charter school for their own selfish reasons. Nobody that I know of has promised that it would do anything else. Again, the opponents of this are really mad that they can't frame the debate here in a way of their choosing.They are also livid that (for once) they have been outspent,outsmarted and out hustled by their opponents. They usually spread around a lot of campaign cash through the GAE lobby in Atlanta and real reform never sees the light of day.

I am glad that you didn't call me stupid.To say thanks,I won't call you a lying left wing nutbar for thinking that the Koch brothers are hiding behind every tree trying to shut down the public schools so that they will have stupid employees and make them less money.By the way, Bernie Marcus (founder of Home Depot along with Arthur Blank) is behind this. Do you think he wants to shut down the public school system?

I also won't point out that secretive Hungarian billionaire George Soros (funder of left wing weirdness) is funding the teachers in this little set-to. That would be out of bounds. So I won't do that.

Okay folks- Read and decide for yourself. If you think that the people that have run our schools into second rate status are the ones to fix them,then the choice is clear. But if you think that we can do better...If you think that kids with special needs skills and gifts deserve the best possible chance to strut their stuff,then give this amendment a yes. The only thing we have to lose is some bad educational practices.
No.more.hypocrites
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October 28, 2012
Teachers know that this Amendment isn't the answer. It isn't the silver bullet to educational bliss. It won't close any achievement gaps. There's a higher probability that it makes things worse.

No one wants to get rid of public education? I'm not going to call you stupid for believing that. You probably have your head in the charter sand, can't hear reason, and are just plain naiive to the world around us. This has been one of the biggest initiatives of the Koch brothers for the past 30 years. There are many groups, think-tanks, and corporations out to drain the billions of dollars from taxpayers and have been trying to cause failure by passing more bills/laws and tying the hands of administrators and teachers. Look at ALEC for for one huge example. Privatization of education is the plan. Changing the law to make it easier to divert money from public education is only the beginning.

If you want to point at someone for rewarding friends and punishing enemies, you need to start with the Governor. http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-forward/

You really want to give power to people that don't have to answer to you? You are creating more government by voting yes to this amendment. This amendment abolishes democracy at the state level. You have no voice if this passes. Charters will have free reign and you'll have no say.

This is so Liberal that Obama supports it. More spending. More government. Less democracy.

Vote NO.

snarky
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October 28, 2012


"You falsely accuse teachers of resisting change. If you ask ANY teacher, they will tell you education is not perfect."

... Then join us. It sounds like teachers are just as opposed to the education fossils as we are.Time to walk the walk.

But we both know that's not gonna happen. Too many vested interests that like things just fine.The education monopoly (and yes, I include the local school boards in this) think that "reform" means throwing more money at the problem,while the public that cares defines "reform" as trying something more effective.Nobody wants to do away with public schools. That's just stupid.But that's the argument that the education monopoly trots out when they feel threatened. Even the biggest dimwit can see that its THE BIG LIE in all of this.It's unworthy of educated people and it undermines their credibility.

And throwing more money into the school systems makes no sense. The baby boom is way over (and lots of people have pulled their kids out of public schools anyway) so the amount spent for each student has gone up and up. spending more money doesn't mean more or better teachers. it means more assistant vice principals and central office drones that have to justify their "education" jobs.

and as for this amendment...Think here people: get away from the squishy reasoning and really noodle this. The local school boards can use absolute power to approve or deny charter schools to reward their buds and punish their enemies. And they'll do it,too. It's all about politics with the school monopoly. Sherry here thinks that these people are eligible for sainthood,but you and I know better. They're human. they' will do what they want if they have absolute power. the reason they feel so threatened by this is that it would make decisions on charter schools much more democratic

No.more.hypocrites
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October 27, 2012
Snarky,

I think we have room to work with, but I doubt many of the highly polarized folks on this issue will ever try.

You falsely accuse teachers of resisting change. If you ask ANY teacher, they will tell you education is not perfect. It isn't because of their teaching styles. I doubt you'll find much difference between public and charter schools on that issue. The problem with education is that there is way too much testing which does not allow teachers to do their job. I've talked with charter teachers as well that complain of having too many administrative duties and paperwork. So it isn't perfect there either.

We agree that reform is needed. Freedom for teachers to actually teach and be creative is needed at all levels in all schools.

Amendment 1 is not going to fix education. What if it makes it worse? We should not treat this like ObamaCare and push it through because it is on the agenda. We need a real solution.

I'm voting NO. Parents wanting choice, and parents that are happy with the schools they are at should come together and hold legislators accountable. We need real change. We need real reform.

What makes charters different from public schools? They have more freedoms. Why not free up all schools from the tyranny of big government?

Changing the State Constitution will not be something to reversed easily. This amendment creates more bureaucracy, BIGGER GOVERNMENT, that isn't even accountable to voters.



snarky
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October 27, 2012
"...who do you believe will be *educating* the students at the charter schools? CEO's?"

Nope. They will be pretty busy running their companies.

Longtime watchers of this space will notice a pattern. Every time anybody or anything threatens the turf of the education establishment,out come the teachers and education types to defend their turf. After a couple of comments (no matter how mild),you'll discern that they are just interested in their interests (and in some cases their sinecures) and their contempt for the public comes spilling out. Here we are again.

The war over school choice (for those of us that passionately believe in it) has become a guerilla war. (Thats why I'm wearing a gorilla suit as I type this. Just like a ragamuffin army of patriots took on the greatest military power the world had ever seen back in the early days of this country, so too are the true believers taking on the sclerotic establishment of the education monopoly today. There are skirmishes like this one all the time. We win a few,we lose a few. But the fact is,we'll win in the end. We'll win because parents want this. Parents want good schools and modern teaching methods and accountable leaders and educators.When they see their kids get crappy jobs because they are unprepared for the real world,they join our cause.

If you're reading this in 2062, (by the miracle of some media that has not been invented yet), you may be incredulous that there was a day when the establishment stood in the way of desperately needed reform. They literally prevented all kids from having the great education that some kids got. (And they'll wonder how the press aided and abetted the mugwumps that resisted change).

We'll get there. The day may not be here just yet. But it'll happen.

No.more.hypocrites
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October 26, 2012
Snarky, you are clearly saying that teachers have an agenda here other than providing an education for their students. The "thrust" of my previous comment was asking you who do you believe will be *educating* the students at the charter schools? CEO's?

And you are half right on your second comment. There are parents that are fighting for choice. And this is what it is about for them. I agree. However, you are ignoring the force behind the movement. Legislators, corporations, and the think tanks that they fund, are using parents to get what they want...(I'll put this in all caps) MONEY. They see the billions of dollars moving through education and want a piece of that pie. Others have an agenda to end public education altogether.

Legislators are wrapping educators in red tape hoping they will fail so they can say that public education is a failure. They cut back funding so public education is sure to fail. What they haven't considered is that the people in education do their job (for the most part) to help. They are not in it for the money. This doesn't mean they shouldn't get paid what they deserve.

Teaching methods are out of date? The teachers I know are adapting their teaching styles all the time. What is out of date is expecting students to all perform equally on standardized tests. As mentioned previously, this is not a problem in education, its a problem in the gold dome. You know... the same morons that wrote this amendment (which is heavily biased in its wording).

FYI - School Board elections are off set so that (about) half of the posts/seats are up for election every two years. For example, 4 of 7 posts up for election this year and the other 3 posts up for election in two years. I believe this is to ensure that there is always a few veteran board members. You may want to look into SACS regulations on this one for specifics.
snarky
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October 26, 2012
"are you saying this assuming that the CEO from the education management corporation will be the one education all the charter kids?"

Sorry, didn't get the thrust of that.

As to the other point...This is not (as it has been mischaracterized here) about GREED (all caps). This is about POWER (even more all caps). This is a disingenuous argument. Nobody is trying to take anything away from public schools. Charter schools ARE public schools. This is about the local education potentates wanting to hold onto monopoly power that will be shared with an entity that can make them do things that they would rather not do.Like approve charter schools that will probably show just how out of date their teaching methods are.The people arguing against this know this.Thath's why they are scared witless that this will pass.The local school board(s) like their power and perks just fine,thank you, and they don't want to shre them with anybody.

This is a rare event. Here's a chance for the voting public to have their say in an educational matter in an election thats not stacked in favor of the people in the educational establishment.School board elections are held in off years when the turnout usually consists of education people and the few others that actually pay attention. That means that the result is fairly well rigged before the vote occurs. But here's a chance to have the rest of the electorate to have a say in something important. It will be interesting to see what happens.

No.more.hypocrites
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October 26, 2012
Snark - Definitely not as well financed as the proponents of this Amendment. Having the Koch brothers on your side definitely tilts the money factor to your side. Of course... they will make 10X the money they have invested in this push if A1 passes.

When you mention teachers... are you saying this assuming that the CEO from the education management corporation will be the one education all the charter kids?
snarky
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October 26, 2012
" The teachers being a "special interest" group made me roll out of my chair as well...I fell over in a heap. Ridiculous!!"

...Then what do you call a group that has a team of lobbyists in the capitol in Atlanta? And a a legislative agenda published in the open on their website?

Look, don't just take my word for it (or Ms. Indignant here). Read up on the whole thing by scanning the work done by Kyle Wingfield in the AJC. He's an objective observer that doesn't have a vested interest in this thing.He's not going to call you names or berate you if you happen to disagree with him.

The fact is, it's the local school boards that are fighting this tooth and nail. So how would you expect them to give a new charter school a fair shake when they want to open up? C'mon people,use your heads here. When the education establishment fights something like this, they are just as slick and well financed as the people they oppose.They claim that they are less than one paycheck from the poorhouse but they have plenty of money to lobby the legislature year after year. Soime of us just don't buy their propaganda. Thats why there's all the hate directed at me and like minded people.

sherrydee
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October 26, 2012
As a matter of fact, you're covering a LOT of good points on here...thank you!! The teachers being a "special interest" group made me roll out of my chair as well...I fell over in a heap. Ridiculous!!
No.more.hypocrites
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October 29, 2012
http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/19943319/anti-charter-school-amendment
JoeWill
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October 25, 2012
Ms. Allen made this comment: "This is about GREED. It's about losing sight of what's really important..the children..and education. I can't condone it."

While this is an opinion page. The above statement appears to indicate that the content is lacking in material fact. School boards are not created equal across the state. Some are very good, others lack in management skills or a tax base to provide proper instruction for basic skills. That said, the author would have you believe that maintaining the current board of education structure is the best way to insure that the children of Georgia will achieve educational success. With all due respect, I will have to disagree with that view. Georgia currently ranks 47th out of 50 states in national test scores.

While some local BOE's do a good job, most don't embrace the idea of competition. The amendment is about offering choices to parents.

Based on the points listed, based on facts, Mr. Snarky, you're on the side of the majority of Georgians, 47 out of 50 is not good enough for the children of Georgia.

ChrisPBacon
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October 26, 2012
Do you think comparing the success of 80% of a student population to that of the top 10% of another student population will give you an accurate comparison? Because that is what you are trying to do. Most states have fewer than 20% of their student take the SAT when GA has more than 80%. When you compare the average scores of these two samples, you will see that GA is 47th of 50.

If you compare the average scores of the top 10% of the worst school in GA to that of 80% student population of the best school, the 10% will win.
sherrydee
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October 26, 2012
Thanks for the feedback..it's a good argument. I respect your opinion. I admit I struggled with it...many aspects of it.

I guess I feel like...just because you feel there aren't choices doesn't mean the local board isn't doing their job. Ask your school board how many honest charters have approached them. Unless you're loaded with capital to begin with, it's hard to implement an educational facility.. BUT that doesn't mean the people with money should be able to shove any type of school in here without a check and balance. In a perfect world, everyone would work to build valid schools in needed areas...but it's just not that way.

I agree with you in that local boards are NOT created equal. Ours is fantastic, while one of our neighboring county boards bickers like 5-year-olds. But this isn't entirely about the capabilities of the local boards, it's about large companies bulldozing over the law..and the local communities' best interests...for PROFIT. Google EB5.

snarky
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October 26, 2012
Joe, you're spot on. Profit is not the dirty word these extremists would have you think it is.Profit is why you can read these very words (if the paper makes any). To say that out of state businesses funding this is somehow evil is just silly.I think that they are investing in this concept so that they will have better trained,better educated workers to make higher value added products so as to make (cover your ears) a profit. In my book, any group that continually takes more public money and delivers worse results is pretty greedy,too.
No.more.hypocrites
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October 26, 2012
Question: Why are communities not seeking out the not-for profit EMO's like the one managing Walton HS that has been highly successful? That would stop those liberal, stinky, greedy, children-hating nay-sayers in their tracks.
sherrydee
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October 24, 2012
Snarky: All four of my children did eventually go to public school. My twins attended the Catoosa public school from fifth grade until they graduated from RHS last year.

My son had different needs, so we put him in private for a short time for personal reasons. He was there for two years and is now enrolled at RHS and will be there until he graduates.

My youngest daughter has been in public school her entire life. She is in 7th grade at RMS at this very moment.

I homeschooled because I enjoy teaching and I wanted to keep my children in the home to spend time with them and enjoy watching them grow. Had nothing to do with my concept of public school..NONE WHATSOEVER.
snarky
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October 24, 2012
The point is... You exercised CHOICE.I hope you picked up on that. And BTW, choice already exists. Wealthy people have choice. There's free choice in higher education.(We can send our offsprung anywhere that we can afford. And some places we cannot).

Why is it that the only group that is stuck in place is the group that is not born with economic advantages?
Pansysnark
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January 23, 2013
I've heard that some people "homeschool" because they are afraid of Satan, Halloween and superhero toys.
sherrydee
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October 24, 2012
I would like to thank three of you for your well written and insightful comments or points of rebuttal. That is what this forum is for and it works well for the most part. Good clean debate.

Snarky- I have been here for a few years and watched your immature and obnoxious comments roll in on a daily basis. We all get a good laugh here in the office. You seem like a fairly intelligent person, and I've always thought it was such a shame that you spend so much time being purposely ugly toward each messenger, rather then debating the actual topic at hand.

You conveniently ignored my statement that I "googled and researched for days" in an effort to be objective and educate myself.

You also twisted my words regarding being bored in meetings. I did not zone out in THAT meeting. Quite the contrary, I became very impassioned about the subject.

I was merely poking fun at myself in the beginning of my column as a way of drawing in and connecting with my readers. Had I started out with mundane political facts, I would've lost 90% of them, which defeats the purpose of good writing. I wanted to reach those people like me who struggle with political jargon...I wanted to try and offer the issue in a more "reader-friendly," average-Joe" fashion.

I wrote a column...NOT an article, just so I could "editorialize" freely and give my opinion. That's what an "opinion column" is...I have the right to my opinion, just as you have the right to yours.

Of course our schools lobby for money. There's an EIGHT MILLION DOLLAR hole in the finances. Asking for money and fighting for money is their job, just like spending the paltry amount the gov't allots public schools is a tedious task.

You can think I'm lazy all you want. Your opinion is irrelevant to me. You're awfully brave out there, hiding behind your very appropriate username, "snarky." At least I slap a by-line on my rants. We call using a fake name COWARDLY around here.

If your intention was to hurt me, you succeeded. I was deeply hurt by your "lazy journalism" comment. Rather than hate you, I chose to forgive you, and prayed for you. In general, you just seem like a very unhappy person, so I asked God to amply bless you in the days ahead.

snarky
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October 24, 2012
Whoa. Touch-ee. Somebody can dish it out but can't take it.It's a good thing that we live in the internet age and opinions and information are more democratic. The paper used to pronounce from on high and now they have a lot of different voices and that really seems to bother them.Life is getting better all the time.

I never tried to hurt you,just ask the kinds of questions you would ask if you were more objective. (Like you piled on the people of faith during the kerfuffle over at Ridgeland and took a cheap shot at them.Remember that?)

Thanks for the prayers. I'll remember you,too.
sherrydee
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October 24, 2012
VotingYes: You bring up an excellent point about charter schools. I homeschooled all four of my children during their early education years, and my son attended private school for 2 years in middle school, so I agree completely.

Children's needs should be met by their educational institution, regardless of where they attend. It's our responsibility as parents to connect the right child with the right school.

For the aforementioned reason, I really struggled with some points of this issue. I spent many hours and several days researching both sides.

I had to keep reminding myself that this is not about the validity of charter schools. Our local board is VERY open minded toward them.

I don't think it's fair to say "most local boards are against them." That's a rather bold and broad statement, in my opinion, and our numbers don't match. My data said there are over 200 charter schools, many of which were established during that "unconstitutional" phase, so I'm not sure where the error lies...

Also, this is not a ONE SIZE FITS ALL amendment, which bothers me. We have a great board that does their job efficiently. They received accolades and high scores just for their "partnering" abilities with businesses and the community. So why should they be punished for the slackness and crookedness of other boards and lumped in with a generalization?

You won't find a local board more committed to their community...even if that means sharing the pot with another school.

In summary...this is not about the local boards or the fantastic option that lies in the concept of a charter school. In a perfect world, everyone would let the system work as it should. But that's clearly NOT happening.

This is about GREED. It's about losing sight of what's really important..the children..and education. I can't condone it.

snarky
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October 24, 2012
I homeschooled all four of my children during their early education years, and my son attended private school for 2 years in middle school, so I agree completely.
snarky
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October 24, 2012
" I homeschooled all four of my children during their early education years, and my son attended private school for 2 years in middle school, so I agree completely."

Why didn't you send them to these wonderful public schools that you want us to send our kids to? The fact is, the wealthy have abandoned the public school system. The upper middle class have mostly abandoned the public school system. Now the meat of the middle class wants reforms before the system totally fails and people like you want to stand in their way.

sherrydee
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October 24, 2012
Tom Sawyer: I agree completely. So many issues need to be addressed in many schools across our nation. Public ones, private ones and charter ones all need improvement.

I just wanted to remind folks that Denia Reese and the other board members are diligent and devoted servants of the community....not perfect...but devoted. They embrace problems and do their best to fix them because they care. Solutions are difficult, but I admire their tenacity and commitment to the children.

I couldn't agree more on the uniform idea! I've been saying it for years as well...
TomSawyer
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October 24, 2012
Thank you, Sherry, I don't intend to vote in favor of this.

However, I would like to point out that putting on a hard hat and digging through the rubble isn't nearly as impressive as getting control of the students would be.

Far too many students use the school as a social gathering, a fashion show, a place to have sex...yes, you read that right. Students ARE and have been for years using the school grounds, the old greenhouse, the stairs, and buses for sex.

Yes, there are some great students in our high schools, exceptional students that will grow up to be exceptional people. Talk to them, they will tell you they can't even walk down the halls between classes without repeatedly being offered drugs. Also, the bullying is completely out of control making many students fearful of school.

Yes, I'm very happy with the way pennies are being pinched, but money won't fix what is wrong with our schools.

Let the hate begin, but veeeery strict dress codes would be the best place to start. Is the job of HS to prepare students for real life and the work force? Then let them dress like they're going to work, their job is to learn. I promise you, grades will improve, and discipline will be less of a problem. They have the rest of the day, weekends, holidays and all summer to dress as they want.

Pretty buildings do not make for better schools.

VotingYes
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October 23, 2012
Most parents know their children learn differently. I know several families who send one child to a traditional public school while the other attends private school. It's what we do to help our children. Even a great school system has children who might do better in a different environment.

Example: A charter middle school opens that teaches math and science in single gender classrooms. One mother has seen her daughter, who used to love science, grow shy around boys. She won't participate and her grades, while ok, just aren't where her mother knows they could be. Meanwhile, another mom has noticed her daughter flourishing at the traditional school. She loves challenging the boys and working on projects with them. I suggest neither school is right or wrong. Having the charter school allows the first family to choose the better option for them.

The problem today is that most local boards of education are denying charter school petitions. Out of 180 school systems, about 10 have approved start up charter schools - not to be confused with conversion charters or charter systems.

The people opposed are fearful of competition. They shouldn't be. They should be proud that their district is serving both students in the example above but instead they see a dollar sign walking away by choice from the traditional school.

Vote yes....and by the way, these schools operate on less than $.70 to every dollar spent by the district. The non-profit governing board will not allow waste. Money is for the classroom.

ChrisPBacon
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October 26, 2012
Voting... you mention that charters operate at a lower cost? Are you taking into the additional services provided by public schools? Transportation? Special Ed? ESL/ESOL? I'm gonna say no... and I'll be voting NO.

Charter schools will still operate without this Amendment.

snarky
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October 23, 2012
This whole article misses an important point- If the the "giant,for profit" school builders don't get the job done,you can pull your kid out and send them to where they can get a decent education. Can't do that with the public schools.

And is there a bigger special interest lobbying group in Georgia (or any other state) than teachers?Big business wants their sugar,to be sure,but educators are not shy about getting their hands on ever more of your taxpayer dollars.

Sherry, it seems like the hour you spent with the school politburo was used to brainwash you. By your own admission,you don't have a fundamental grasp of this issue (you state that you kind of lost interest during the discussion). It's downright irresponsible to editorialize after listening to only one side of the argument. Lazy journalism is what we used to call that.
ChrisPBacon
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October 26, 2012
Calling teachers a special interest group makes me laugh... unless of course you are referring to the fact that they are interested in helping children become successful? Because if you are trying to say they are in it for the money... well... that's just asinine.

Do charter schools not have teachers?
joeharrington
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October 23, 2012
On the electronic machine, the review screen is even more deceptive. On the machine I used, Iit read "For increasing student performance [you voted]" No
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